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Convolutions of an Evil Mind
madamhydra
madamhydra
Feral-verse: Contagion 5/? (FF7 AU, Feral-verse)
61 hisses or Hiss in my ear....
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jessara40k From: jessara40k Date: January 23rd, 2008 03:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
Unfortunately, Reno didn't know that Rufus was perfectly capable of taking care of himself. Rufus tried to tell him, but he was too confused at the time to explain properly.

Yes, that's what makes it ironic, for me. And considering how disorientated Rufus obviously is just now Reno has reason not to think he can take care of himself.

Actually, Rufus got past his father's teachings and started caring about the Turks years ago, perhaps even before the whole Nibelheim incident.

I was talking about the one where he's supposed to be 'above' actually fighting physically.

The sight/smell/feel of Reno getting hurt was the trigger that made Rufus fully embrace the Change. Up until that point, a part of him had resisted going feral.

And without embracing the Change would he have been as effective, or would he have needed to work with Reno to kill the Jenova-spawn?

All of the high-level ferals can cast healing spells without the apparent use of materia, for reasons to be explained later (remember how Zack cast that barrier when they were at the Shinra Mansion?).

I hadn't realised they could all cast healing spells, and I kind of saw the barrier as 'crude' lifeforce manipulation, compared to the fine control needed for healing.

However, Aeris is THE healer, because she can do much more than repair 'normal' physical injuries (i.e., complicated manipulation on the cellular and genetic level, etc.)

I didn't mean to compare him to Aeris, I mean, Aeris more or less 'specialises' in healing, her other powers, as I understand it, are applications of healing to other things.

I decided that the use of materia a big deal and fairly difficult in Feral-verse -- dangerous, too, if you don't know what you're doing. Otherwise, if it was too easy and/or common to use powerful healing materia, there wouldn't be much need for normal doctors and medical services.

Makes sense.

Rufus is a rather pragmatic sort of person -- instead of worrying or fretting about his situation, he's more interested in making the most of it. So what if he's got tails, as long as they're useful?

And that's a pretty healthy attitude to have, a lot more healthy than Cloud's questioning everything in a way.

As for Rufus's nomral personality, there's no question that he tends to be arrogant, devious, manipulative and highly possessive. ^_^; But Reno and the Turks know that and they accept it in their chosen leader.

Yes, but what I meant was if his attitude had been anything other than mostly normal Reno wouldn't have been comfortable enough to tease him in response to the 'you're mine' statement.
madamhydra From: madamhydra Date: January 25th, 2008 07:16 am (UTC) (Link)
Yes, that's what makes it ironic, for me. And considering how disorientated Rufus obviously is just now Reno has reason not to think he can take care of himself.

Rufus would've had a hard time persuading Reno (or another Turk) under normal circumstances with Rufus completely lucid -- after all, one of the Turks' primary jobs is to protect Rufus. An obviously mentally confused Rufus didn't have a hope in hell of convincing Reno to leave him behind.

I was talking about the one where he's supposed to be 'above' actually fighting physically.

Ah, I see. But again, I think Rufus was already discontented with the 'not dirtying one's own hands' fairly early on. Remember, Rufus did take it upon himself to personally confront Cloud and his team early in the game.

And without embracing the Change would he have been as effective, or would he have needed to work with Reno to kill the Jenova-spawn?

Without fully embracing the Change, Rufus probably would have remained confused and disoriented. However, that confused mental state wouldn't have made Rufus any less dangerous. He would have still killed the Jenova-spawn with relative ease, but he would have been operating on blind instinct and probably berserk rage so the kills would have been much messier and excessively violent.

Either way -- Rufus embracing the Change or not -- Reno is a non-factor in the fight because he was taken down almost immediately by the first monster (i.e., Reno was practically disemboweled, poor guy).

I hadn't realised they could all cast healing spells, and I kind of saw the barrier as 'crude' lifeforce manipulation, compared to the fine control needed for healing.

High-level ferals can use a wide variety of 'magic' such as those typically associated with materia -- only now, they don't need use materia at all and can cast magic directly. Also, they're much more efficient in using magic than humans, and so can create much greater effects with much less power.

The barrier Zack created in Nibelheim is basically an enhanced feral variant of the conventional magical barrier-type spells cast with materia. Yes, he could've created a barrier with 'crude' lifeforce manipulation, but when you think about it, it's a clumsy and pretty inefficient use of power. For example, you can enter a house by smashing down a wall, but it's much easier to just go through the open doorway.

I didn't mean to compare him to Aeris, I mean, Aeris more or less 'specialises' in healing, her other powers, as I understand it, are applications of healing to other things.

With respect to healing capabilities, you can consider the high-level ferals to be like EMTs or paramedics, while Aeris is more like a board-certified neurosurgeon. ^_^

And that's a pretty healthy attitude to have, a lot more healthy than Cloud's questioning everything in a way.

Actually, I see Cloud as really second-guessing himself only when it comes to his emotions and feelings (especially with respect to Sephiroth, of course), but not with regard to most other things, especially his physical and combat abilities. He -knows- he's damn good at fighting and I can't recall an instance in which he questioned himself about that, even in the midst of the worst of Sephiroth's mindfuckery. So I can see Cloud taking things like shapeshifting or developing new abilities with a surprisingly pragmatic sort of calm, even disregarding the effect of going feral.

Yes, but what I meant was if his attitude had been anything other than mostly normal Reno wouldn't have been comfortable enough to tease him in response to the 'you're mine' statement.

Oh, definitely. If Rufus had continued behaving out of normal character, Reno would have been a lot more restrained and cautious in his manner.
jessara40k From: jessara40k Date: January 25th, 2008 12:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Rufus would've had a hard time persuading Reno (or another Turk) under normal circumstances with Rufus completely lucid -- after all, one of the Turks' primary jobs is to protect Rufus. An obviously mentally confused Rufus didn't have a hope in hell of convincing Reno to leave him behind.

Agreed, but if he'd been thinking normally Reno would probably have put him down, and trusted him to stay out of the way and let Reno do his job, or at least that's my read on it.

But again, I think Rufus was already discontented with the 'not dirtying one's own hands' fairly early on. Remember, Rufus did take it upon himself to personally confront Cloud and his team early in the game.

I'd forgotten about that.

Either way -- Rufus embracing the Change or not -- Reno is a non-factor in the fight because he was taken down almost immediately by the first monster (i.e., Reno was practically disemboweled, poor guy).

Ouch, yes, I can see that.

The barrier Zack created in Nibelheim is basically an enhanced feral variant of the conventional magical barrier-type spells cast with materia. Yes, he could've created a barrier with 'crude' lifeforce manipulation, but when you think about it, it's a clumsy and pretty inefficient use of power.

Yes it is, but I was assuming ferals, except for healers, still needed to 'focus' magic through materia except for 'crude' effects.

Actually, I see Cloud as really second-guessing himself only when it comes to his emotions and feelings (especially with respect to
Sephiroth, of course), but not with regard to most other things, especially his physical and combat abilities. He -knows- he's damn good at fighting and I can't recall an instance in which he questioned himself about that, even in the midst of the worst of Sephiroth's mindfuckery. So I can see Cloud taking things like shapeshifting or developing new abilities with a surprisingly pragmatic sort of calm, even disregarding the effect of going feral.


I see where you're coming from here, but I was expecting that he'd associate the mental/emotional aspects of the Change so strongly with the
physical aspects that he'd let his emotional second-guessing affect that as well. Also, the last time someone developed new abilities like this it was because of Jenova, and I thought he might have the same sort of issues regarding that as Sephiroth.
madamhydra From: madamhydra Date: January 26th, 2008 10:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
Agreed, but if he'd been thinking normally Reno would probably have put him down, and trusted him to stay out of the way and let Reno do his job, or at least that's my read on it.

That's highly probable.

Yes it is, but I was assuming ferals, except for healers, still needed to 'focus' magic through materia except for 'crude' effects.

That's a perfectly understandable assumption, because that little fact (that ferals don't need to use materia) hasn't become an issue in the story just yet. However, it won't be long until Cloud or Cid start chucking around magic without materia.

I see where you're coming from here, but I was expecting that he'd associate the mental/emotional aspects of the Change so strongly with the physical aspects that he'd let his emotional second-guessing affect that as well. Also, the last time someone developed new abilities like this it was because of Jenova, and I thought he might have the same sort of issues regarding that as Sephiroth.

Well, not exactly. I see Cloud as being far less prone to his usual angst about any new abilities he develops simply because Zack's presence. And after the conversation with Cid, Cloud has pretty much made -- at least subconsciously -- the decision to trust Zack. But more importantly, the concerns that Cloud might have about the changes he's undergoing being 'Jenova-tainted' are going to be mostly relieved by Aeris, when Cloud and Zack go and talk to her in the church (in spirit). Aeris might not know exactly what's going on with Zack and Cloud, but she definitely senses that it's not 'bad', especially when the Lifestream overwhelmingly agrees with her hunches.

Unlike other times Cloud has dealt with Sephiroth (post-Nibelheim), Cloud doesn't have to struggle alone. I think Cloud will be much less prone to his customary emotional uncertainty, even with respect to Sephiroth-related issues, when he knows that both Zack and Aeris are at his back. Not only do they provide support because they fully understand both him and the situation, but also they also give him a sense of security no one else can.

Cloud's trust in Aeris and Zack is vital to getting Cloud to fully remember and accept Sephiroth's true place in his heart. Yes, he will freak out a bit and naturally be anxious, but it's going to be much easier to assimilate the concept with Zack (physically present) and Aeris (in spirit, for now) there to hold his hands through the process.
jessara40k From: jessara40k Date: January 28th, 2008 01:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
However, it won't be long until Cloud or Cid start chucking around magic without materia.

Sounds like that will be...interesting. Can't wait.

But more importantly, the concerns that Cloud might have about the changes he's undergoing being 'Jenova-tainted' are going to be mostly relieved by Aeris, when Cloud and Zack go and talk to her in the church (in spirit).

I hadn't thought about that.

Cloud's trust in Aeris and Zack is vital to getting Cloud to fully remember and accept Sephiroth's true place in his heart. Yes, he will freak out a bit and naturally be anxious, but it's going to be much easier to assimilate the concept with Zack (physically present) and Aeris (in spirit, for now) there to hold his hands through the process.

Yes, I can see how he'll start considering it because they assure him that it will be alright more than anything else.
61 hisses or Hiss in my ear....