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Convolutions of an Evil Mind
madamhydra
madamhydra
COI - Zack, dark and dangerous
39 hisses or Hiss in my ear....
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naanima From: naanima Date: November 9th, 2005 11:49 am (UTC) (Link)
ZAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!

I'm so glad you are touching on Zack's anger issues! I can picture Vincent, Cloud and Reno forming a Hunting Party. For some reason the mind breaks every time I try to picture Sephiroth as part of the party. He seem to be the type to Hunt Alone.

But GLEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Also very worried about Cloud because Strife is really, really, really vindictive. But I'm really happy you have decided to finally touch on the Strife/Zack=Cloud relationship. ^_^

Contemplating living at your lj in case you update more of COI.
madamhydra From: madamhydra Date: November 10th, 2005 06:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
Well, everyone's main concern for the moment is Jenova. Besides, when they find Jenova, they will probably find Hojo.

Actually, I can see Vincent going it alone. He already had signficant guilt issues from Lucrecia, and the new revelations about Project B may have sent him a bit over the edge. ::ponder::

Yes, Zack does have anger issues. You see, as I worked on this drabble, I came to the conclusion that Zack could not have escaped Nibelheim emotionally unscathed.

I suppose that it was inevitable considering that Zack was locked up, poked, prodded, experimented on, etc. for five whole years. And while he didn't undergo the sort of torture that Cloud did, being trapped and unable to do anything except sit around and watch/listen to Hojo and the other scientists carry out their scientific horror show could very well be considered a type of hell, especially for someone like Zack. Add to that the stress of being forced to hide your true feelings because of the constant surveillance and trying to cope with his guilt regarding what happened to Sephiroth, and you get one very unhappy, very angry guy. So while Cloud fell apart from his traumatic experiences, Zack became more focused, perhaps obsessively so.

Which brings up the interesting question -- can Montessi's and Roissy's murders be attributed solely to Strife? Or did Zack have some input there? ::significant eyebrow waggle::
naanima From: naanima Date: November 11th, 2005 12:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
More often than not I think Hojo is the greater evil. No matter how twisted and how much Jenova messed with people's head she's alien, and because of that I give her more leeway for doing the Evil. For all we know she might be considered 'nice' amongst her species. But for Hojo, a human, to do such horrible things to another human, well, I'm all for killing him. Slowly.

Vincent and guilt *ponders* It does throw in a whole new light on how much suffering was involved in order for Sephiroth to be born. Strangely I have always taken it for granted that Sephiroth was a fluke of nature. One of those once in a millenia deals; all the right alignment of planets, or some strange combination of environmental circumstances that cannot be reproduced by human. I know he was experimented on, but I jsut assumed that he was already beyond your average mortal, and that Hojo only aggravated the issue by making Sephiroth more aware of his 'otherness'.

Hmm, seven years after the game and I finally get the point *sighs*

I have to agree with you, under so much pressure/trauma/stress you'd have to be insane to be influenced by it. I don't think Zack is unbelievably strong so much as that in his pain he focused on something external to his own suffering. That is, he focused on Cloud to the exclusion of all else, it is always better to take care of someone than to dwell on one's own pain. And as such I belief that Cloud was as much as Zack's life line as Zack was Cloud's. Mutual survival, it is just that they dealt with it in complete different way.

I have a confession to make; when Cloud let Roissy(? The one he let go) fall to her death I had always assumed it was Zack. It was something to do with the way he let her die; cold, impersonal, as long she dies it was good enough. For some reason I had assumed Strife would make the whole affair; death and destruction, much more personal. Like hand through the chest, drinking blood personal.

Ohhh, I think I'm liking Strife more. Having said that I think I'm looking forward to Strife getting even with Sephiroth more, because you know, a whole different can of worms there. *giggles*
madamhydra From: madamhydra Date: November 11th, 2005 11:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Sephiroth's birth could very well a fluke, a sort of genetic jackpot. Certainly, Hojo couldn't duplicate Sephiroth's creation (i.e., Project B in COI), even with repeated attempts.

While Hojo had direct custody over Sephiroth, he probably had little interest in trying to create another Sephiroth. However, when Sephiroth escaped Hojo's direct control (by joining Shinra's military), Hojo probably started exploring the idea of making another Sephiroth, which is much easier said than done. Presumably, this is when Hojo started up Project A, which was direct cloning from Sephiroth's cells. It was only after Sephiroth 'died' in the Nibelheim reactor, Hojo really started work on Project B (modification of human fetuses before birth).

Vincent is no doubt wallowing in guilt because he sleep through all this, unaware of Hojo's horrific research. ^_^;;

I don't think Zack is unbelievably strong so much as that in his pain he focused on something external to his own suffering.

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. ^_- In some ways, Zack's situation is more like a prisoner-of-war than experimental subject. In that respect, the scientists are the enemy and it seems quite plausible (to me, at least) that as his confinement continued, Zack's anger at the 'enemy' would continued to intensify. Certainly, the more he learns of their activities (i.e., through Hojo's boasts, etc.), the more reason Zack has to hate them.

That is, he focused on Cloud to the exclusion of all else, it is always better to take care of someone than to dwell on one's own pain. And as such I belief that Cloud was as much as Zack's life line as Zack was Cloud's. Mutual survival, it is just that they dealt with it in complete different way.

Uhhhh... no. I'm afraid not. ::massive sweatdrop:: Considering all the experimentation carried out on Cloud, it's unlikely that Zack really saw Cloud much for a substantial part of their confinement. And when he did eventually see Cloud, Cloud was pretty much out of his mind by then.

So, as COI is currently plotted (although this is subject to change), Zack and Cloud weren't really that close as friends. If Zack felt anything for Cloud, it would probably mostly pity because of the hell the scientists were putting the poor kid through.

So why would Zack go through so much trouble to escape with Cloud? I'm sorry to say but it wasn't necessarily altrusism, at least in the beginning. What if Zack learned or suspected that Cloud was the focus of some special research -- something big, even if Zack didn't know the exact details. That would be enough to get him interested in Cloud at the beginning. And if Cloud is so important to those scientists he hates so much, then that is pretty good reason to steal their prize specimen, right?

But perhaps as Zack spent more time with Cloud, he did indeed start to feel sympathy and comraderie with Cloud. So even if he first had his own selfish reasons for escaping with Cloud, by the time of the actual escape, Zack really did care what happened to Cloud.

Ah, but remember that Cloud's mind is steadily being taken over by Zack's personality. So at least on some level, Cloud was painfully aware (however dimly) that Zack wasn't really interested in helping him of pure friendship. A part of him (you can guess which part!) deeply resented that while another part of Cloud is willing to accept whatever kindness he could get, even if motivated by pity or some ulterior motive. And given his usual easy-going temperment, Zack tends to be quite friendly, nice, and supportive, unless he had good reason not to be.

I'm not trying to make Zack a bad or unsympathetic person -- it's just that his loyalties lay pretty much entirely with Sephiroth and he did whatever it took to take care of Sephiroth's interests and welfare. But with Sephiroth dead (as far as he knows), Zack is now simply taking care of his own interests.


madamhydra From: madamhydra Date: November 11th, 2005 11:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
I have a confession to make; when Cloud let Roissy(? The one he let go) fall to her death I had always assumed it was Zack. It was something to do with the way he let her die; cold, impersonal, as long she dies it was good enough. For some reason I had assumed Strife would make the whole affair; death and destruction, much more personal. Like hand through the chest, drinking blood personal.

No, that was mostly Strife. I'm sure that if Strife could have done something long, slow, and painful, he would have. But at that point in time, he only just a few seconds of control over Cloud's body, so he did what he could in the brief instant that he had. But Zack also had a hand in Roissy's murder, too. After all, Zack probably saw an opportune chance to rid the world of one of those despicable scientists that he loathes so much. ::evil grin::

Ohhh, I think I'm liking Strife more. Having said that I think I'm looking forward to Strife getting even with Sephiroth more, because you know, a whole different can of worms there. *giggles*

Well, Strife already took out Zack with a stab in the back and excessive amounts of hacking. ^_- Which leaves two people which Strife really REALLY has a vendetta against -- Sephiroth and Tifa. ::innocent whistle::

39 hisses or Hiss in my ear....